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Slavs are not Romanians primary ancestors.Romanians ancestors are Thracians and Romans.
Ciao
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/Europe_1490.jpg
I personally won't take any information on this site serious from now on.
http://www.worldology.com/Europe/Europe_Nations/Romania/index.htm
This article largely agrees with your assertion that the native Thracians and Romans are the dominant ancestors of modern Romanians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%9E%D1%80%D0%B4%D0%B0.png
By 1150, the Kieven Rus had already fragmented, dividing those who would later become known as "Russians", and those who would later become known as "Ukrainians", as shown in the interactive map. There is evidence that "Ukrainian" was used in reference to those in modern western Ukraine, before 1350. The map does not get into the nuances of this, and in the 1350, simply refers to these people as "Ukrainians", since they may or may not have been referred to as such during this time period. But one thing is clear, they were ancestral to modern Ukrainians. I did intend for this map to be as accurate as possible, but as mentioned above, the primary aim is to give a broad-brushed, comprehensive view of the entire "political" history of Europe. So I do gloss over many of the finer points in favor of giving the visitor a sense of how borders, people and events coalesced over time to bring the continent where it is today. So the overarching patterns are more important than the hair-splitting details, which can be appreciated more in other places which exhaustively discuss narrow aspects of European history. In which case, there are many approximations.
Nice site tho.
these details are critical .!
Might want to correct that.
Great site nonetheless!
http://is.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamli_s%C3%A1ttm%C3%A1li
If you do not fix this, we will unleash the wrath of Eyjafjallaj
man, you suck, moldavia was NEVER under the kingdom of hungury..do read a book, don't just stare at fake maps!
It's really unclear to me how economic issues had to do with collapse of the SFRJ (YU). As much as I remember after the golden days in 70's, things were only getting a lot, lot better by the end of the 80's. Standard was peaking by the 1989 and nobody would ever go into war over economy at that time. But JNA (Yugosla People's Army) did go to the northern (Slovenian) borders after it's declaration of independence to gain back access to customs revenue. The war only lasted 6 days, since most of non-serb recruits deserted from service. So, the army became serb-only.
And the only reason it moved to Croatia and Bosnia and Hercegovina was because of the plan called Greater Serbia ("Wherever there's a serbian grave it is Serbia" idea).
And no, UN troops were not sent into Croatia to protect Serbs although they did act that way. There was really no need, since croatian serbs were heavily armed and backed up by JNA while there was embargo on weapons export to Croatia imposed by UN.
And thanks to StumbleUpon for pointing me in this direction.
was impressed until saw that.
One remark from me: What about the gypsies (Romanies, Roms) who originated from the Indian subcontinent and emigrating towards nowadays Europe???
Regards
its like
Sun and Moon
Two different things.
So many mistakes!
You should delete this!!!
Unfortunately there is one significant problem with reference to Ireland. For whatever reason Ireland is referred to as "the island of Ireland" or the Scotti moved from "Northern Ireland".
Both of these terms are politically loaded. Prior to partition, a political act to divide a nation for purely political reasons, Ireland was one country and to most Irish and of Irish descent remains one country in all but political terms.
Even if you choose to ignore this it is wholly inaccurate to refer to use the term "island of Ireland" ( a very recently invented term, do we say the island of Australia?) and capitalising "Northern" Ireland also gives the impression to the reader that in 500 AD Ireland was divided in any way except tribally.
Excellent presentation but these corrections are needed.
And for those who insist on how different we are from each other here is the answer: Our ancestors came from Africa 50,000 years ago which makes us all, hmmm...well, Africans. There you go. Problem solved.
A small correction: On Map 235-490AD, "Eastern Roman Empire": "Byzantine" does not mean "Empire of the Romans" in Greek at all. Byzantium was the name of the small village where emperor Constantine established his new capital, later known as Constantinople or Istanbul. Actually the term "Byzantine" is modern, the byzantines were just calling themselves "Roman" plain and simple.
Are there any references that this site uses??? Consult ancient sources and objective historians but not Wikipedia.
You can't delete MACEDONIANS from the face of the Earth. NEVER!- EVER!
Broad brush history always has and always will simplify to the edge and even over the edge of being wrong.
But for sure he was NOT greek..
Please do change that fact..He was MACEDONIAN..
Except of that the site it pretty educational..
Cheers
Nenad Copenhagen
We don't have anything common with Greeks - it is so obvious (they are like Brazilians(i mean blacker than Macedonians, no offense).
You openly supported Greek side , and that's a fact...and you have right to have your own opinion of course, but you have to say that it is your opinion.
If you are objective then you have to present both sides of the 'coin' (to put the Macedonian view, not only Greek).
Regards
1. Macedonian kingdom in time of Philip II of Macedon and Alexandar the great NEVER HAS BEEN a city like all others helenic city-states. Is allways was a kingdom and very big kingdom.
2. Once again, they concord all greek cities except Sparta. Demosten in his speaches wrote that Alexandar is barbarian and all helenic must fight against him.
3. I think in Macedonia in that time was spoke language which are different then hellenic. Which lenguge spoke Alexandar when the concord the world is questionable because we have a small of evidence keep safe.
4. Grek/Greece as a term is appears in the begining of 19th century, that means artificial make conections with hellenic, Аlexandar, anciеnt world. In oposite Macedonia exist all the time, starting with bible.
5. Pela the born city of Alexandar and capital of Kingdom of Macedon is placed in northen part of present Greece, very close to Republic of Macedonia border. This area till 1912 when Macedonia is divided of three parts, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER belongs of Greece of any Hellenic city, state or whatever.... Is allways belongs of Macedonians. On this area allways and now live populations which declares him self as a Macedonians, spoke Macedonian language, all places have Macedonian toponims. How is possible to Alexander to be greek.
6. Regarding the Slavs, and modern Macedonians origin is litle funny and stupid to think that 2000 "slavs" who came from "north" concord 1 000 000 people who leaves on Macedonia teritory. Also Kiril and Metodij which are authors of Kirilica and all "slavs" language are born in Solun, now Thessaloniki. Who is so brave to tell from where came modern Macedonian language.
7. On the end, in Greek language is no name Aleksandar. That is Macedonian origin.
It's lot of fact which should be disscus but space are litle and this is no place for something like this. But to tell that Alexander the Great is belongs only to Greece and not to modern Macedoina discriminatory, offensive and totaly unfair.
Best regards.
but like i said good site!
Place of birth Pela (Albanian meaning female horse)
With all respect to todays Slavic Macedonians, why last 5-10 years you are so shame to call your self Slavic, you always pretend to be Slavic! What happened to you?!
Pretending that Kiril and Metodij are the inventors of Slavic alphabet is true, but that dos not mean that they are Creators of Slavic people! That theory will have to prove that all Slavic (including Russians) people are with origin from Thessaloniki!
If someone teaches you that you have changed your language because of Kiril and Medotij thats wrong, ask your self why Geeks and Albanians kept it same! They accept orthodox teaching and religion but never change their native language! The native nations from this region show respect to all of you when you moved here from Karpatia, so return respect to your neighbors! Be realistic stop believing in your Mentors that teach you wrong, you can not change history and thats a fact!
In the history it is written that great Greek orators were naming Aleksandar of Macedonia(The Great)as a barbarian because he was not Greek.
P.S.
At the time Greece did not existed,only cities like Athens
Sikyon
Corinth
Sparta
Thebes
Argos
Mykenae
Delphi
Olympia...existed.
IT IS NOT GOOD TO MISINTERPRETATE THE HISTORY FACTS
MACEDONIA is bibble land !
Does it matter Alexander is Greek or not when there are bunch of protests there, the economy is ruining... or Macedonian where there are people that haven't eat in days, whit already ruined economy. Does it really matter ???
Do you think that nationalism will feed you all?
Think again before It can become to late!!!
Just 2 biggest mistakes.
1.You say "Alexander conquered all Greece" and in the same time you say "He is Greek" Well I haven't heard for a nation that conquered itself?!
2.You say Macedonia and Bulgaria "successfully revolt from Ottoman Empire". Bulgaria yes, but Macedonia never revolt from Ottoman Empire. In 1913 in Balkan wars Macedonia change its Ottoman slavery to slavery of Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria. Macedonia successfully revolt from Serbia in 1991. It is only 38% of its occupied territory.
Please saw or read interveiw of former US STATE SECRETARY Lorens Iglberger make for NTV television in the face of General Asembly of UN for the truth about MACEDONIA. "It's final time to tell truth about Macedonia and fake claims of Greece that Macedonia and Alexandar of Macedon belongs of Greece". Do you think that US STATE SECRETARY is wrong, or maybe, do not know istorical facts? Everithing about Macedonia till now is ONE BIG LIE serve from "european big countries" and now must keep in live those lies.
But truth allways win!!!!
MACEDONIA TIMLESS.
Regards..
Casey,
I forgot the site. Please translate from Macedonian. It's good to know Macedonian....
Greece is Greece.
Deal with it.
Also, BSSR, Ucraine SSR - all the same USSR country, not like colonies.
Very propagandist site...
The Germans never even got the chance to "unsuccessfully" invade Britain, Operation Sealion never came to fruition. The Battle of Britain was an air battle, not a land based invasion. Perhaps this is just a different interpretation of the word "invasion" but for me, invasion means actual troops attempting to take another independent State's territory, not planes bombing airfields and cities.
this is still for the large part a great site. Great work!
Forefathers of modern Finns came here in several waves. First came right after ice age. People came in several waves for thousands of years. Around 3 200 BC came Indoeuropean Corded Ware culture which took over Western and Southern Finland. Other Finland was inhabited by Fenno-Ugric population which mixed with corded ware people only much later on Iron Age.
There was simply NO movement around 2 000 BC. Where did you get these laughable claims?
Everywhere there is so many mistakes that I think you should learn much more about history and probably read non-American history books before attempting to do something like this. You should just delete this.
It is sad that people still write stuff like that
Regards
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_%C5%BDerjavi%C4%87
If you have better information, then please share.
Example: Sweden was neutral during WW2, but Finland was not. 1939-40, Finland was brutally attacked by the Soviet Union, which was then allied with Nazi-Germany (The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact). Later in the war Finland joined forces with Nazi Germany against the Soviet Union to capture territory lost during the first phase of the war.
btw respect for the site and the map and the effort xx
Thank you. At first I could only imagine this being an undertaking by a whole class.
Otherwise, it\'s pretty good stuff.
Also 1989-NOW CYPRUS IS SEPERATE!!!! NOT A ONLY COUNTRY!
@the haters - cut the guy a break. He's not here to catalog a complete history of your country, and just because the history he used does not agree with your own country's interpretation of historical events does not necessarily mean he is incorrect. He has obviously taken his fact from widely accepted sources, and you need to understand that your own local history may NOT be representative of those sources.
I am certain the author meant no offense, and was simply stating that Macedonia is a great Hellenistic civilization next to Greece, which Greece later conquered.
I am not sure how it differs in language, culture and politics, but I know that if someone called Canada America I would probably be upset as well.
Also, this is the best site I have ever stumbled upon, ever, in the history of stumbling.
Thank-god.
i find it interesting how most of the complaints about this are quite insignificant clarifications regarding modern eastern european countries, their cultural distinctions, and their borders, which tend to shift around every few years or so... that\'s not to say it would be impossible to document such information in a format like this, it\'s just that the scope of this project is 3000 years! i don\'t know, maybe it\'s hard to see reason when you\'ve lost your head in an emotional expression of nationalism
Just a few notes, the bubonic plague was caused by Yersinia pestis, which is a bacteria, not a virus (under the church heading). Also, it is not carried by rats, but by fleas. This is a popular misconception, owing to the obvious association.
This web site is just another greek propaganda...
Statements like: \"The Scandinavians were not inhibited by culture or religion that inhibited pillaging\", is plain BS created by the Catholic Church, which itself has a grotesque history of murderous pillaging.
And, to keep on repeating such Vatican BS about the Norsemen as historical fact, is a display of plain ignorance at the least.
Thank you
UK and never has been.
Herodotus lived before Alexander the Great and gives his family tree.The Macedonian kings came from south Greek city Argos (still exists),thats why they were called Argeade.
All of them ,from Karanus (808-778 BC) to Alexander the Great(the 3rd ,336-323 BC)had of course greek names etc with etymology roots which can easily understood with modern greek (not like kimono :-).
They are about 25 so the story goes very deeply greek to be argued by our north friends from FYROM who could proudly been called Southslavs or whatever does not violate history.
Sorry if things are different than they are tought by todays political games.
But if somebody wants to study the history by the ancient historians (out of the game) and wants to be serious and not victim he should spend some real histoty time.
I give you a link for a start. The whole site is VERY interesting and has many articles in english.
http://history-of-macedonia.com/wordpress/2006/06/06/ancient-writers-about-macedonia-herodotus/
Remember :we talk now about real history ,no todays bullshit.
In google documents also there is a photo of a modern (1939) Afgan bank note with a picture of a coin on it.Its a Macedonian Helenistic coin with the words :Vasilews Megalou Eukratidou ,in GREEK ,so eny modern greek can read it and understand it.
Who conqers the world and makes coins in a language that is not his native?
Of course there are many Macedonian epigrafs on stone or clay which are in greek and NO one in another dilect.
Guys, lets not create a false history and generations of problematic relations.
What you have to do with Fillipos? his name is two words as we use it today.Filos and ippos :the one who likes horses.you came in the area just yesterday.The ancient things is our business.Study it.
Thanks and sorry
a greek whose blood is in doubt by you today
We speak about 1500-300 BC,
I will agree with the notion that there are much more significant problems than names both in FYROM (call it Macedonia if you want to, it is your right) and Greece.
I just want to ask a simple question: Does any of you claiming that Macedonians are not Greeks know the etymology of the words Alexander or Philipp?
Philipp= Φίλιππος < Φίλος + ίππος (friend + horse)
Alexander= Αλέξανδρος < αλέξω + ανήρ (help, prevent (v.) + man)
Has anyone ever visited Pella and read the ancient artifacts? What language is found on them?
We all can say random facts with little or none credibility and prolong the dispute eternally, but at least I back my opinion with something scientific and not with the words of a UN official or something I read on a newspaper or a biased schoolbook (there are biased schoolbooks in every country)
Call yourselves what name you will, it\'s your right, but accept some scientific facts for crying out loud.
I think this is the correct map:
http://i.szperus.pl/media/upload/images/1239220472xx_lecie.jpg
Otherwise, a nice map.
However, there are so many little errors in the descriptive texts... I\'d like to second Vadim\'s comments about the use of the name \"Ukrainians\". I\'d also like to point out that during the 290BC-235AD period there were no Poles, either - the first Slavs, ancestors of later Poles, came into present-day Poland much later than that, probably around 400-500 AD, and the name \"Poles\" was first used in 10th century. Also, Mieszko, the first Christian ruler of Poland was only a duke, not a king yet - the first king of Poland was his son Bolesław (Boleslaus), crowned 1025.
Advancing towards more modern times, I\'ve found the following about the English Civil War: \"England was left without a monarch until the Glorious Revolution of 1688\" - this is obviously false. The restoration of English monarchy took place soon after Oliver Cromwell\'s death in 1658 - Charles II was crowned in 1660, was replaced in 1685 by his brother James II, and the Glorious Revolution in 1688 was in fact all about *removing* James from the throne in favour of his daughter Mary and her husband William of Orange.
You gotta be kiddin man!
Go neanderthals!
Your interactive map project is monumental in scope, and the huge investment in time and love you invested is readily apparent.
Your grace in dealing with so many inappropriate, as opposed to constructive, comments speaks volumes of your character. A work of this scope clearly deserves a better class of audience than the intellectual Philistines who have posted such tedious drivel as demonstrated in many of the comments above. I believe it was Dr. George Will who phrased it best, \"The pursuit of perfection often impedes improvement.\"
My compliments on your scholarship and grace. Do continue the excellent quality of your work. With profound thanks for your scholarly gift I remain...
in your debt,
George
Every Student of American War Movies and Patriotic Parades should be forced to look at the \"Dead Lists\" of the two world wars in order to put our sacrifice into some perspective.
Jen
So when someone "Ignorantly" generalizes your heritage, take it like the civilized men and women you are and realize their generalization, if it isn't directly intended to be some sort of racial slur or attack (and sometimes if it is too), is probably pretty close.
Reci